David Aldridge/The Athletic October 29, 2021

D. C. broadcaster Harold Bell’s memorable interview with Muhammad Ali

ALI & FOREMAN: THE RUMBLE IN THE JUNGLE ZAIRE, AFRICA SATURDAY OCTOBER 29, 1974

Harold Bell, in his eighth decade, continues to lead a unique life. The longtime DC broadcaster and community leader, who was the first black to host and produce a daily sports talk show in the city in the early 70s, and who was on air in town for decades, still does a weekly show on YouTube that runs the gamut from sports to politics. He still gives honest, unvarnished opinions on the people and issues of the day. Bell’s Kids In Trouble campaign raised money and had annual Christmas toy drives for thousands of needy youth in the DMV (1968-2013) without grants or loans. And, this month, he’s part of the retrospective surrounding the Ken Burns’ PBS documentary on the late, great Muhammad Ali.

Ken Burns, daughter, Sara and son-in-law, David participate in panel discussion with MPT moderator Charles Robinson and Harold Bell. They discuss the PBS cut & paste preview of Muhammad Ali.

Bell not only knew Ali well, but wound up getting one of the most converted interviews with the champ, immediately after Ali’s iconic defeat of George Foreman-the “Rumble in the Jungle”-in Kinshasa, Zaire (now known as the Democratic Republic of the Congo), in 1974. Saturday marks the 47th anniversary of that upset, which ended with an eighth-round knockout of the previously undefeated champion by then -32-year-old Ali, a prohibitive underdog going into the fight. But Ali got Foreman to punch himself out with his infamous “Rope-a-Dope” strategy, leaving the exhausted Foreman unable to get up after an Ali flurry in the last 30 seconds of the eighth round put him on the cavas.

Bell, met Ali in 1967 on the campus of Howard University, he was working as a Roving Leader for the Department of Recreation and Parks. Ali gave him his first post-fight interview after returning stateside from Zaire to Bell- which became a half-hour special on NBC affiliate in town, WRC-TV 4. It was the first prime-time sports special in history produced and hosted by a Black man.

Ali befriended many writers and broadcasters over the years, of all races, most notably Howard Cosell of ABC Sports, whose public defense of Ali’s refusal to serve in the U. S. military because of his religious beliefs as a practicing Muslim was controversial and vital at the time. Bell’s friendship with Ali took him all over the country as Ali trained for his fights. “I never heard him say a discouraging word about a white person,” Bell says of Ali today. “He has never talked about hating white people. He protected Angelo Dundee, Gene Kilroy and he loved Bert Sugar.” He was flawed, but he was still one of the most unique and caring human beings I have ever met. I am just privileged and honored he chose me as a friend.

Bell has held onto the interview for the last four-decades, rebuffing efforts from the likes of HBO, Burns, Daymond John from the TV show “Shark Tank”, CAA (Creative Artist Agency) and Don King.

The fast talking and known scammer King mailed him a $10,000 check, saying, “Promises made, promises kept.” He waited for King to come to DC for a boxing promotion and gave the check back to him. King, had hired Bell’s younger brother William as his photographer, he took the photo of the transfer of the check. Thanks to King’s “Right Hand” confidant, Connie Harper, he played along with King for a minute. Her best advice, “Don’t take any money from Don unless you earned it.”

He watched how he kicked his partner R & B King, the late great Lloyd Price (Bell’s mentor) to the curb, stole from Ali and Tyson. Bell said, “I felt lucky to escape with only hurt feelings.”

Bell, received a Pioneer Award from the National Association of Black Journalists’ Sports Task Force in 2020. He is looking into making the interview available via other platforms. “I am getting calls from all over the world about this one of a kind interview,” he says.

Nation Association of Black Journalist 2020 pioneer honorees, Lee Elder (Golf)-Ozzie Newsome (NFL)-Harold Bell (Sports Media) and Kristi Toliver (WNBA). Narrators: Dave Aldridge-Ray Richardson and Ron Thomas.

WHEN DID YOU FIRST MEET ALI?

I left Winston Salem State before graduation (Bighouse Gaines and the school saved his life). He decided to chase his NFL dreams instead of a college degree. Bell ended up in Charleston, West Virginia playing minor-league football for the Charleston Rockets. He got cut without dropping a pass. He remembered there were several passes thrown over his head and behind him. He said, “I guess they thought I should have caught those passes too.” Disappointed, he took the bus home to D. C.

He returned home and connected with old friends, Petey Greene and Marvin Gaye. They met in front of the landmark Howard Theater one weekend night. Petey had gone to jail instead of college and Marvin joined the Air Force. The three of them stood on the corner trying to figure out their next move in their hometown without a degree that has been mistaken for opening the doors to success in Black America.

Bell remembers Marvin, making up his mind fast and in a hurry. He said, “I am getting out of DC.” Bell and Petey both looked at him and asked the same question, “Where are you going man?” His response, “I don’t know, but I am getting the hell out of this town!” The three of them shook hands, hugged and Marvin was gone.

Petey and Bell hung out for a little while longer and called it a night. Petey asked Bell if he was really looking for work-he said, “Hell yes!” Petey, told Bell to meet him at 10th and U Streets Monday morning at 8:00 am at the United Planning Organization (UPO). There might be some work for him.

Monday morning Bell met Petey at UPO, he was introduced to the CEO Mr. Jim Banks. He was hired as a Neighborhood Worker, two days later H. Rap Brown was hired to join him and Petey. They were the trouble-shooters for the Cardozo/Shaw Community. Their domains would be the schools, playgrounds and DC Superior Court.

In 1967 Bell would join the D. C. Department of Recreation and Parks, elite Roving Leader Program. The jobs were similar, with the exception the Roving Leaders were assigned to work with youth gangs and at-risk children throughout the city.

After he joined the D. C. Recreation Department (1967). Bell and Petey stayed in touch and would meet at Ben’s Chili Bowl regularly for lunch. One day Petey came in and told Bell that Muhammad Ali was on the campus of Howard University. Bell said, “Lets go what are we waiting for?” Petey said, “I have a meeting with Mr. Banks, I cannot hangout.” Bell said, “See you later.”

When Bell arrived on campus, he saw folks hanging out around the Administration Building. As he got closer, there was Muhammad Ali surrounded by what seem like hundreds of students laughing and giggling. Ali had their undivided attention. He was talking about racism and why he was not going to join the U. S. Army, mainly because, “Them Vietcong ain’t never called me nigger.”

Bell eased his way up through the crowd until he was almost nose to nose with the champ. Ali paid him no attention–he had the students begging for more.

It was a beautiful day to be hanging out, finally after about 30 more minutes of American racial history, Ali called it a day. He made a request for someone to show him around the campus, hopefully a pretty coed.

Before one of the pretty little girls could respond, Bell grabbed him by his hand and said, “follow me.” The next thing Bell knew, he had Ali by his arm leading him off campus to the Georgia Avenue corridor.

Ali did not complain, because the pretty little girls were following them. When they got further down the avenue and walking by the Wonder Bread Company, Bell turned to look behind them and it looked like a Ali was leading a parade. Folks were blowing their horns and women were stopping their cars in the middle of the street and getting out to run over for a hug or touch–it was crazy. Ali loved his people.

Bell said, when he got down to 7th and T streets he was taking him to Sam K’s Record Shop to introduce him to Sam, but before he could get him there, Harvey Cooper aka “Oldest Teenager” jumps in front of Ali and starts to throw phantom punches at the champ. The champ accommodates him for about 60 seconds-everybody laughs. Sam K comes over and Bell introduce the two legends. Bell says, “I will never forget that day, it will always be etched in my mind. The day, I first met Ali on the campus of Howard University.”

WHEN DID YOU SEE HIM NEXT?

I did not see the champ again-until 1972. That was a great year, I became the first Black to host and produce my own radio sports talk show in Washington, D. C.

The Inside Sports tag was given to me by my wife Hattie at the dinner table the evening, it wasthe day before his radio debut. Inside Sports changed the way we talk and report sports in America. Bell, left Petey Greene and Bobby “The Burner” Bennett talk shows at WOL and found a new home at W-O-O-K Radio 1450 on the AM dial, thanks to his childhood friend, the legendary DJ, John Edwards aka “Terrible Turk.”

Ali and Bell would meet again in Cleveland in 1972 thanks to JD Beathea a sports columnist for the Washington Star Newspaper. I heard he and Harry Barnett a white attorney and a graduate of the Howard University Law School. Barnett, also represented George Foreman.

Their favorite place to hangout was “Billy Edwards Boxing Gym” located on the corner of 9th and S streets, NW. One evening Barnett and Beathea were talking about driving to Cleveland for a charitable boxing exhibition featuring Muhammad Ali. That was all I had to hear was the name, Muhammad Ali. I hitched a ride with them after clearing it with my wife.

Bell, remembers arriving in Cleveland, walking into the hotel lobby and there was Muhammad Ali holding court again, but this time it was not with a group of college students, it was with a group of reporters hanging on his every word.

They tried to ease their way around the group heading to the front desk to register for their rooms, but Ali spots Bell, and yells, “Harold Bell what are you doing this far away from home?” Bell says, “I almost fell to the floor. I had not seen him in 5 years and he makes me, The Chosen One.”

It was there in Cleveland Bell would meet Ali Boxing Royalty, the champ’s brother, Rahman Ali, R & B legend, Lloyd Price, Boxing Historian, Bert Sugar and the man who called himself “King”, Don King!”

Against everyone’s wishes, Ali crowded King, the first Black promoter in the history of the sports’ flawed history. King would be right at home. He was an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY THIEF-he stole from everybody!

Ali was in Washington, DC in 1975, he was in town to be honored by the DC Chamber of Commerce as its “ATHLETE OF THE CENTURY!” Bell was his caretaker for the weekend.

After he picked up the champion and his side-girlfriend Veronica at National Airport. He got them settled in separate rooms at the Sheraton Hotel. Bell, spend several quiet hours with the champ in his room. He questioned why he was was carrying a briefcase of cash around with him. How did Bell know about the cash in the brief case? He said, “It was the same briefcase Ali had when he arrived in New York City from Zaire. The same briefcase he went to get a one-hundred dollar bill out for him in 1974 after their interview in New York City.”

Ali, opened the briefcase in the hotel room and said, “I brought the cash with me from Zaire, because I did not want King to steal it. I give the money to folks who need it.”

Ali, later accused King, publicly of stealing one-million dollars of his 5 million dollar purse. The champ told Bell, “King was the biggest mistake I ever made in boxing. Lloyd Price would echo the same cry!”

This is the email I received from R & B legend Lloyd Price on New Year’s Day in 2021 telling me to stay away from Don King. King reneged on a promised partnership with Lloyd. King’s net worth 300 million. Lloyd Price died May 2021.

This charade with King reminds me of something Ali’s business manager Gene Kilroy once said to me. He said, “Harold Bell, if you played the game, you would be a millionaire and they would have been calling Howard Cosell the black Harold Bell!” My response, ‘Ali never told me I had to play the game.‘

The next morning after the exhibition fight in Cleveland, JD Beathea decided to write a story on the first black boxing promoter, Don King. I was invited to breakfast by JD to sit in for an introduction to King (it was called networking). King shown up with Connie Harper. It was here King said, “Harold Bell stick with me baby, we are going places!”

King, never fooled me, when he came to New York City to set up office space for Don King Productions, he brought his right hand lady with him, the late Connie Harper. She knew his DNA and shared it with me.

It was the summer of 1973 when I called Don at his new office in the Big Apple. Connie answered the phone. I told her I would like to make an appointment to meet with DK aka Don King when his busy schedule allowed. She said no problem and that she remembered meeting me at breakfast in Cleveland.

Several days later I took a train to New York City to meet with the man who called himself, King!

I arrived by cab to his office for a 3:00 pm meeting. He was nowhere to be found. Connie said he was not answering his phone. It would 5:00 pm when he came through the door apologizing for his tardiness.

No problem, the two hours I spend with Connie were the best two-hours of my sports media career. The 411 and 101 lessons she taught me regarding DK can never be measured.

The most important lesson she taught me, was not to take any money from DK I did not earn, if I did he was going to treat me like a HOE! She was right on time and on the money!

I learn one lesson on my own–not to laugh at some of his dumb ass jokes. But still I supported him on Inside Sports, and the columns I wrote in the Afro-American and New Amsterdam newspapers.

There was very little choice, on the other side of the boxing landscape, there was Bob Arum, Lou Duvall, or Mike Trainer. I was left with playing the “Race Card” with a bigger racist than all of them–Don King. Connie, taught me when to hold them and when to fold them!

Playing fair was not in Don King’s extensive vocabulary, but I decided to rolled the dice with him. Going in I knew “The House always won.”

Being in the corner of DK was like playing Russian Roulette, but there I was on national television on the Geraldo Rivera talk show defending DK’s right to steal from his fighters. The opposition was, Rivera, the late Bert Sugar and award winning journalist, the late Jack Newfield. Newfield was the author of the 1995 journalistic masterpiece “The Life and Crimes of Don King–The Shame of Boxing in America.

THE MAN WHO COULD HAVE BEEN KING–BOXING PROMOTER DON KING CHOSE TO BE A THIEF.

Who ever said, crime does not pay, never met Don King. As they say, “The proof is in the pudding.”

First, In 1972 I was there for the Children’s Hospital benefit scam in Cleveland when King convinced his friend Lloyd Price to introduce him to Muhammad Ali. Lloyd help convince Ali to come to Cleveland to fight in an exhibition to save a hospital for sick children. The hospital was in the process of declaring bankruptcy-DK was the promoter. His scheme was to make Ali his meal ticket to fame and fortune.

When the exhibition was over and the smoke had cleared. It was reported the boxing exhibition raised in the neighborhood of $80,000, DK gave the hospital $15,000!

The champion boxers who have been victimized by King reads like a Who’s Who; Tim Whiterspoon, Larry Holmes, Terry Norris, Mike Tyson, Julio Cesar Chavez, Muhammad Ali, and on and on. He settled most law suites out of court.

The million he stole from Ali, King send a friend of the champ’s to a hospital with $50,000 in cash. Ali was lying in a hospital bed dead broke, and with the cash the friend brought a message from King. He told Ali if he did not take the cash, he would have him in court forever and a day. Ali, took the $50,000.

Mike Tyson claimed, King and his homeboys stole $100 million from him. Tyson and King settled out of court for a reported $14 million dollars. After each transaction, Don King cried out, “Only in America.” Don King has no shame!

I could see he was becoming suspicious of me, I never accepted the meal tickets, hotel rooms, the perks he passed out to the media who kissed his jackass. In Las Vegas, Bert Sugar and Howie Evans (sports editor for the New York Amsterdam newspaper) let me share their room.

Access to press credentials for Don King fights became a hassle for me to obtain. His all white PR team would claim they never received my credential request. Fight time, he would hide out in a different hotel or trailer. His son Carl or friend Aaron Snowell would tell me where he was hiding out. I would confront him and he would lie saying, “Harold baby, I have nothing to do with the distribution of press credentials!” I would then be approved for credentials in the nose bleed section in the arena.

He had the nerve to not approve me for press credentials in DC my hometown. PR man in-charge Charlie Brotman apologized to me–I knew almost everyone taking tickets at the door at the DC Armory. The look on his face when I appeared on press row shaking hands with Lloyd Price and Kenny Gamble (Philly Sound). I gave him a ‘Thumps up,’ and hollered “Only in America Baby.” Priceless!

THE MEDIA LEGENDS OF BOXING AND THE SPOOK WHO SAT BY THE DOOR.

WHAT DID YOU TALK ABOUT IN THE INTERVIEW?

We talked about the state of Black America and racism unlike anything in our life time. The state of young people and the crime and gun violence in our community. He talk about the definition of friendship and how important it was for us to speak truth to power. He talked about how important Black women are in our lives. We talked about the influence of our parents, and how at the end of his career he wanted to be a minister in the Nation of Islam and travel all over the world to bring peace. All the things we talked about are still relevant today as we head into 2024. It’s only two minutes of the interview where he talks about the difference between a fighter and a boxer. 

The interview was one of a kind and it was very inspiring. This was the first interview ever in his boxing career, he allowed anyone to interview him with marks on his pretty face (black eye). This was the first exclusive interview in the history of the sport an undisputed heavyweight champion allowed a black journalist to interview him one on one. Ali has done thousands of interviews around the world, he has never promoted an on air radio or television personality, the exception-Harold Bell and Inside Sports.

DID YOU SEE ALI AGAIN AFTER THE INTERVIEW?

The D.C. Chamber of Commerce names him the Athlete of the Century (in November, 1975). James Denson was the (executive vice president) of the Chamber of Commerce. So James Denson calls me and says ‘Harold, your man is coming to town; we’re honoring him. I’d like you to pick him up at the airport. You can take my car.’ I say okay. So I take the car, go out to the airport. And I can’t find this fool. And so I see Veronica (Porche’, who would become Ali’s third wife). I had never met her, but I knew who she was from the newspapers. And I introduced myself to her and said ‘where is he?’ She points over to the baggage area. He’s over there doing magic tricks, signing autographs. I stand up on a chair and say ‘hey, Champ, this is Harold Bell; come on, man, we’ve gotta go.’ He ain’t even look at me. He said ‘Harold Bell, cool it – I’ll get there when I get there.’ So I sit there with Veronica, and we wait about another half hour.

I took them to the Sheraton Hotel, took Veronica to one room, took Ali to another room. He’s still married (to his second wife at the time, Belinda), but I don’t know what that’s all about. … we must have spent three hours together. I said ‘Champ, I’ve got to go get Hattie, man, so she can get dressed and we can come back for the tribute.’ He said okay. So I went and got Hattie and came back, and we sat at the table with my mother-in-law, Veronica, Happy Myles and his wife Barbra. Mayor (Walter) Washington is presenting Ali with a big plaque, as Athlete of the Century. He stops Mayor Washington in mid-sentence. He says ‘hold it, hold it, Mr. Mayor. Do you know Harold Bell?’ Hattie started looking at me. I said ‘I don’t know what’s going on.’

Ali says again, ‘do you know Harold Bell? Harold, stand up.’ I stood up. And the Mayor’s looking out, trying to find me. He finds me. And he says ‘yeah, I know Harold Bell; who don’t know Harold Bell?’ And he said ‘let me tell you something, Mr. Mayor. That man is my friend. And I don’t want anything to happen to Harold Bell on your watch. Because if anything happens to Harold Bell, you’re going to have to pay.’ He said ‘do you understand, Mr. Mayor?’ The Mayor said ‘yeah, Champ, I understand.’ He said, ‘you know what? You’re not as dumb as you look.’ And the crowd fell out laughing. Hattie said she felt like crawling under the table. I was standing clapping. Only Muhammad Ali could get away with something like that.

I would see Mayor Washington the following summer at the Bannecker Playground located directly across the street from Howard University. We would take a photo with some youth on the playground. As he was leaving, he turned to me and said, “Tell my main man Ali, the next time he is in town to give me a call.” We both laughed.

All forgiven-Mayor Washington and me hanging on the playground out with some youth in DC.

If you ever met Ali, there was one great thing about him, he could make you smile and laugh!

COMMENTS FROM THE ATHLETIC:Mike L Oct 29, 2021 WOW / Charles S Oct 29, 2021 Great article and great read. / Eric F Oct 29, 2023 This is the content I subscribed for. Great read. The World could sure use Ali around. Man I sure miss that guy. / Jim J Nov 8, 2021 Dave, of all the amazing articles of yours I’ve read this is hands down the best. / Nelson B Oct 30 Says a lot about the man when he gave Harold Bell the first interview just like he promised. / Tom M Oct 30, 2021 Love the story. Ali was so much fun. You can’t make this stuff up.